http://hermeticism.tribe.net/thread/0896bbb4-8d6a-4958-88b4-3b541b2a08d6?format=rss Tribe.net. Local Connections http://hermeticism.tribe.net/thread/0896bbb4-8d6a-4958-88b4-3b541b2a08d6#a455430e-2f79-48dc-a9d2-b8dd8d636e07 I have been digging (what I would consider to be) fairly deep into the how and why. That is, I have been plugging away at internet searches relating to the history of the various permutations. To my current knowledge, these are the three main types of historically established tree-letter correspondences, in chronological order: 1. the Luria or "Ari" tree, 2. then the Kircher tree, 3. then the ben Shlomo Zalman or "Gra" tree All are based on various interpretations and/or translations of the Sepher Yetzirah, on which most, if not all, historic Kabbalah-Tarot studies are based. The Kircher model is the one that 19th/20th century occultists favored and is the one most Kabbalah-Tarot students are familiar with. Although none of the historical associations are arbitrary or random, and I wouldn't go so far as to say that these dudes simply "made stuff up", since it was based on lifetimes of research, meditation etc. .... I would not jump to the conclusion that there is a set way to perceive it, since the relativity and flexibility of mystical symbols is part of the inherent beauty and truth of them. One site I have found much clearer and on point is http://www.psyche.com/psyche/tarot/index.html Like all sources, I may not agree with everything said, but I don't necessarily disagree either. I'm open to the possibilities. Feel free to educate me on of your discoveries or recommended sources. Sat, 03 Jan 2009 18:14:06 GMT http://hermeticism.tribe.net/thread/0896bbb4-8d6a-4958-88b4-3b541b2a08d6#a455430e-2f79-48dc-a9d2-b8dd8d636e07 Jordan 2009-01-03T18:14:06Z http://hermeticism.tribe.net/thread/0896bbb4-8d6a-4958-88b4-3b541b2a08d6#5f4f12ff-54c9-481e-b72d-7470b90f0d62 Eliphas Levi's "Transcendental Magic: Its Doctrine and Ritual" really is ALL THAT. Obviously one must decide for oneself based on one's own experience about WHAT works and what doesn't - but ideally one should dig deeper and learn HOW and WHY correspondences work. Obviously many generations of occultists have verified that Levi's correspondences work. That doesn't mean there can't be other correspondences - but these things aren't random and you can't just make stuff up. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=eliphas+levi+correspondence+tarot&spell=1 Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:18:42 GMT http://hermeticism.tribe.net/thread/0896bbb4-8d6a-4958-88b4-3b541b2a08d6#5f4f12ff-54c9-481e-b72d-7470b90f0d62 Cornel 2008-12-20T18:18:42Z http://hermeticism.tribe.net/thread/0896bbb4-8d6a-4958-88b4-3b541b2a08d6#15bcdd11-7e25-469d-97a2-ad983e3b0eb6 Yes, the Tarot was invented many years after the Hebrew language, and its attributes to the Hebrew letters was perhaps an evolution of different spiritual languages coming to find some common ground, but the process by which this occurred is hard to pin down, at least by the people I've read. While much can be learned by playing with Tarot and Hebrew letter associations on particular Kabbalistic Glyphs, there is also something to be learned from the various traditional associations. I don't believe these associations are arbitrary, but are meant to communicate a revelation, and since we have diverse attributes, we have diverse revelations. A traditional Hebraic association of the letters attributes the three mother letters to the Horizontal lines on the most common glyph of the Tree of Life, while associating the thirteen single letters to the diagonal lines, and the seven double-letters to the seven verticle lines. To get the exact attributes, please consult the Sephir Yetzirah by Kaplan, where he gives various versions. A traditional Christian Kabbalistic association attributes the letters in order from beginning to end moving in order according to the traditional order of emanation of the Sephirot, Mercy, Severity, Compassion, to Mercy, then to Severity, then to Compassion all the way down the tree. To find this exact association, refer to any of the tables of various Kabbalistic correspondence texts, of which there are many, who give this order. In referencing this you may find the Crowley reversal of the letters Lamed and Teth in some versions, which upsets this alphabetical order, but he proposes some interesting reasons for this reversal in his book, Toth, though I don't get the sense he understood the reasons for the original order in the first place, which is a dramatic shift from the more traditional associations. Tue, 16 Dec 2008 21:26:21 GMT http://hermeticism.tribe.net/thread/0896bbb4-8d6a-4958-88b4-3b541b2a08d6#15bcdd11-7e25-469d-97a2-ad983e3b0eb6 Phillip 2008-12-16T21:26:21Z http://hermeticism.tribe.net/thread/0896bbb4-8d6a-4958-88b4-3b541b2a08d6#db73a41e-dbab-4d04-9ca8-282779dc1ded Thank you for your thoughtful answers, guys! Fri, 12 Dec 2008 05:15:11 GMT http://hermeticism.tribe.net/thread/0896bbb4-8d6a-4958-88b4-3b541b2a08d6#db73a41e-dbab-4d04-9ca8-282779dc1ded Jordan 2008-12-12T05:15:11Z http://hermeticism.tribe.net/thread/0896bbb4-8d6a-4958-88b4-3b541b2a08d6#99bfc660-7dfb-46d7-b9e1-e38f81186780 > the "correct" associations are the ones that spur and support your individual spiritual growth. Isaac Bonewits's "Law of Practicality" would agree with you whole-heartedly. If something works, there must be some measure of truth to it. That's why when I saw a hermetic placing planets on the Tree of Life differently, I asked him why rather than say he was doing it "wrong". > Any debate beyond that to me, seems only mental masturbation of armchair magicians. It might just be my conception of the word "debate", but I disagree with this. I've had several lengthy debates and discussions about the various hermetic associations, and many of them spurred greater clarity and deeper examination. Debate can be a transformative process similar to alchemy in this way. You take to similar but opposing ideas, put them together, apply heat and see what catharsis is reached. Wed, 10 Dec 2008 23:56:36 GMT http://hermeticism.tribe.net/thread/0896bbb4-8d6a-4958-88b4-3b541b2a08d6#99bfc660-7dfb-46d7-b9e1-e38f81186780 Cuindless 2008-12-10T23:56:36Z http://hermeticism.tribe.net/thread/0896bbb4-8d6a-4958-88b4-3b541b2a08d6#ccb5199a-f061-4095-96d2-00183024e52b the "correct" associations are the ones that spur and support your individual spiritual growth. Any debate beyond that to me, seems only mental masturbation of armchair magicians. Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:54:12 GMT http://hermeticism.tribe.net/thread/0896bbb4-8d6a-4958-88b4-3b541b2a08d6#ccb5199a-f061-4095-96d2-00183024e52b hermeticbear 2008-12-10T17:54:12Z http://hermeticism.tribe.net/thread/0896bbb4-8d6a-4958-88b4-3b541b2a08d6#92b44567-00aa-40a5-b2d6-1e369903419f Same post, different day. Questions for anyone interested. QUESTION 1: (Based on your research, experience, and opinion) * * * What is the "correct" association of the each Tarot card to each Hebrew letter? * * * "It may be well to add that I am not to be included among those who are satisfied that there is a valid correspondence between Hebrew letters and Tarot Trump symbols." A.E. Waite QUESTION 2: (Based on your research, experience, and opinion) * * * What is the "correct" association of the Hebrew letters to the paths on the Tree of Life? * * * This may be a much older debate, since the Tarot is a more modern adaptation, but the Tree and Hebrew itself are much older. I understand the answers to these questions may be subjective. I am asking for your subjective opinion. Thank you to everyone who contributed the last time I asked, I have not forgotten your answers. Just fishing for more opinions, thank you for your time and contributions. Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:11:38 GMT http://hermeticism.tribe.net/thread/0896bbb4-8d6a-4958-88b4-3b541b2a08d6#92b44567-00aa-40a5-b2d6-1e369903419f Jordan 2008-12-09T20:11:38Z