You know...I often wonder the same thing. It's because of people making such a big deal out of small things (PhD-ing the shit out of the material) that has kept from really getting into a practicing community. In my opinion, I feel like it's become dogma...which is why I tend to shy away from Thelemites (no offense to you wonderful folk) because a lot of them that I've met remind me of dogmatic Christians.

I think if you just go with your instinct and with what you feel is right, then it's right for you. Just because the material was established by someone and it's worked for others, doesn't mean it's going to work the exact same way with you. I always go with what I feel is right and good for me....

If I'm totally off on what I just said concerning your post, just ignore me. =o)

I would define dogmatic as; taking the little bit that you know and declaring that it is everything that can be known.

Having admitted that, I will tell you what I think. Before I can understand anything about Reality, I must understand who I, the observer, am. Humans function in a certain way. Our thinking is a process that we must understand. Our emotions follow a process that we must understand. I have access to certain sources of (what shall I call this part? force? power? light? I know....) energy that I need to understand, and further, understand how to use. All of the things I have listed in this paragraph are sometimes called the Occult, or more to my liking, the Mystery.

Unfortunately, because I am so aware of my feelings, thinking, and energy, I have mislabeled them as Reality for decades. Now I learn to unbelieve everthing I have called Reality, my false Idols or false Gods, before I can open my mind to what is really real.

Albert Einstein told us it was nonsense to found a theory on observable facts alone: saying "In reality the very opposite happens. It is theory which decides what we can observe".

What I am trying to say is that I must discard my theories about Reality before I can learn anything new, and hopefully more correct, about it.

Now, about people who only want to "do it". I freely admit that it is possible to use energy without knowing how or what we are doing. 99.999 percent of people do this everyday. Mpst people don't even know that their is another way. I choose to slow and grow. A Gnostic Christian metaphor for this is: As for me and my house, we will serve the lord".

In re-reading your question before I post his, I am not sure that I have answered your question. You asked: Can we meaningfully talk about Hermeticism and Magick at all? The little bit I know, which is NOT the whole, is this; Hermeticism can teach you to know yourself; Magick can teach you what the self can do.

Your Friend,

4W

Hey Surus & Friends,

I relate to where you are coming from on this, though I do have a couple opinions on the matter.

First off having the will to 'expand your soul, touch the divine, or improve [your] physical life' and enacting that will with action and diligence will certainly bring results regardless of your book knowledge.

On the other hand, [my second opinion & I think related];

In order to talk about such things as Hermeticism and Magick with others we need to agree on a set of terms that we all utilise as a point of reference in any discourse we may have. Some call this the magical alphabet. It is not a necessary artifice in order to lead a spiritual life, but it helps when trying to communicate to others. We have in a sence all agreed upon the magical alphabet of Hermeticism by join this tribe, consequently some familiarity with symbol systems derived from this tradition will help us speak of it. Hermeticism is just one manifestation of esoteric science - with its cognate symbolism and doctrines. These doctrines/symbols are not meant to be dogmatic, instead they are merely tools in which the mysteries may be hinted at. I say hinted because symbolism is inheirently mysterious and are in danger of being interpreted too literally. It must be remembered that esotericism in all its forms deals with more subtle aspects of the universe - its etymology pointing to initiation, but more practically 'inner' references.

For some these matters are accessable in more broad terms, which don't require the microscope meditations others find to be 'illuminating'. Both methods constitute practical approaches, though I would say that the use of so-called magical alphabets facilitates communication of such matters which may be helpful in discussions with others. These symbols/doctrines also give form to experiences that otherwise are quite hard to quantify in words, for being able to articulate the mysteries requires not only experience of those mysteries, but also the means to convey them in a way others may comprehend.

Incidently that book: Spiritual Body & Celestial Earth by Henry Corbin is really quite an amazing work. If that sort of approach [and I mean the Middle Eartern /Hermetic approach], appeals to you and you wish to read something that is a bit more accessable you can try another of Corbin's work: The Man of Light in Iranian Sufism. That book give clear instruction as to just hope those mystics approached their work.

Ofcourse there is alway the Picatrix as well, which having influenced the likes of Ficino, Mirandola, Agrippa and others, certainly falls under the more practical/magical side of Hermetic Philosophy.

Best,

WM

Simple answer, "No, you don't need a Ph.D. in metaphysics to progress (or as I see it, 'self initiate')."

Complex answer, "Common language fails to communicate the necessary information to gain insight and advancement beyond a certain point when communicating with others; therefore, uncommon language may provide an adequate medium for some high concepts."

More likely root cause of quandary, "Some people who pursue metaphysical advancement fit within the stereotype of the 'elitists', who will not talk openly with you if you don't know who Bertrand Russel, S. L. MacGregor, H. C. Agrippa are and haven't a clue as to the Hebrew alphabet, regardless of how these people and tools may affect you personal advancement."

Key point to be made, "Initiation is always easy, but only in retrospect. When looking ahead sometimes those first few steps seem like mountains when in fact they are only the foothills."

Two Kinds
There are two kinds of intelligence: one acquired,
as a child in school memorizes facts and concepts
from books and from what the teacher says,
collecting information from the traditional sciences
as well as from the new sciences.

With such intelligence you rise in the world.
You get ranked ahead or behind others
in regard to your competence in retaining
information. You stroll with this intelligence
in and out of fields of knowledge, getting always more
marks on your preserving tablets.

There is another kind of tablet, one
already completed and preserved inside you.
A spring overflowing its springbox. A freshness
in the center of the chest. This other intelligence
does not turn yellow or stagnate. It's fluid,
and it doesn't move from outside to inside
through the conduits of plumbing-learning.

This second knowing is a fountainhead
from within you, moving out.
--RUMI

be found
vita

I learned the rumnes in a single day, and hey've been resonating ever since. This stuff is simple, but you get more out of it the more you play with it.