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I posted this in the “Chaos Magick Tribe” in a thread on “Reincarnation”, but it seemed appropriate to cross post it here
Crossing the Abyss is a consummate act of Will, not a sacrifice of "Ego" and "Attachment". Such concepts as "Ego" and "Attachment" are meaningless beyond the Abyss. And the idea that you can come back from the Abyss is equally meaningless once you have crossed.
"Black Brothers" can be more correctly defined as people who choose not to cross or for some reason cannot cross the Abyss, period. This does not make them any less of a Magician or some such, in any sense of the word "less", it simply means they haven't crossed. I should note that despite the linearity of Cabbalistic systems, crossing is not necessarily "the next step".
People who've crossed still have identifiable Ego's and something like a sense of attachment, from what other people who haven't crossed can determine. But this is simply a mind forcing itself to understand things in terms it understands instead of seeing what's really there.
Reincarnation, as an operative act, is not something worth serious contemplation, if you’re still calling it reincarnation, in my opinion.
Crossing the Abyss is a consummate act of Will, not a sacrifice of "Ego" and "Attachment". Such concepts as "Ego" and "Attachment" are meaningless beyond the Abyss. And the idea that you can come back from the Abyss is equally meaningless once you have crossed.
"Black Brothers" can be more correctly defined as people who choose not to cross or for some reason cannot cross the Abyss, period. This does not make them any less of a Magician or some such, in any sense of the word "less", it simply means they haven't crossed. I should note that despite the linearity of Cabbalistic systems, crossing is not necessarily "the next step".
People who've crossed still have identifiable Ego's and something like a sense of attachment, from what other people who haven't crossed can determine. But this is simply a mind forcing itself to understand things in terms it understands instead of seeing what's really there.
Reincarnation, as an operative act, is not something worth serious contemplation, if you’re still calling it reincarnation, in my opinion.
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Re: Black Brothers and the Abyss
Thu, September 2, 2004 - 11:28 AMInteresting thread, john.
It is not my understanding that the black brothers are merely magickians which have not crossed the abyss, but rather magicians which, for whatever reason, were anable to meet the challenges of either it's guardian or the trip itself. Unable or unwilling to cross the black brothers instead construct a fortress, making daath into their kether. This is an ultimate failure and falsity.
being a neophyte does not make you a black brother, just because you have not yet done the necessary work to cross! That's absurdity.
curious, can you illuminate me as to what this discussion has to do with reincarnation? -
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Re: Black Brothers and the Abyss
Thu, September 2, 2004 - 1:28 PMI sincerely apologize if that posting seemed a bit rude. I truelly did not mean to attack your statement, john. I merely have a different definition. It just came out that way. please pardon any comunicative shortcomings which may sometimes arise.
peace,
Doshi -
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Unsu...
Re: Black Brothers and the Abyss
Thu, September 2, 2004 - 2:28 PMDon't worry about it Doshinto, I'm an old hat at online boards, my skin has grown pretty tough through the years.
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Unsu...
Re: Black Brothers and the Abyss
Thu, September 2, 2004 - 2:48 PMHmmmm…
Your right, a neophyte is not a black brother. Thanks for pointing out the hidden assumption The definition should be amended to state that a person capable and competent of crossing but who does not cross, or chooses not to cross, or cannot cross due to personal obstacles, is a black brother.
The discussion centered around a whimsical insight into the “fragmented selves” theory of reincarnation and this led to a side discussion about Dion Fortune’s fantastic definition of a “black brothers” and their powers of maintaining ego and self through death and into the next reincarnation. As usual, Dion’s definition needed quite a bit of rectification by several parties. -
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Re: Black Brothers and the Abyss
Thu, September 2, 2004 - 7:30 PMUm, just to make sure this neophyte understands, there is a point where one crosses over and becomes a white brother, correct?
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Re: Black Brothers and the Abyss
Sat, January 8, 2005 - 7:12 PMI've never heard the term black borther white brother used so loosly and even metaphorically before. who is to say what the color of a balanced adept is in such undefinite and indescriminate terms based on an abstract symbolic archetype?
there are other associations for the term "black brother" which may not be taken lightly, and are much more definite than any qabalistic reference. -
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Unsu...
Re: Black Brothers and the Abyss
Mon, January 10, 2005 - 9:55 PMWho is to say indeed? Does the term offend you? -
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Re: Black Brothers and the Abyss
Sun, January 16, 2005 - 4:01 PMerronious, I don't fully understand your offense. are you insinuating that this thread has anything whatever to do with race?
I would say the "color of an adept" would be an infinate scale of shades of grey. hows that? -
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Re: Black Brothers and the Abyss
Fri, March 25, 2005 - 12:39 PMGreetings,
Black (Brothers)= absorbtion, inability to give light...often marked by those who having reached a nominal level of competancy (Chesed) they then wall themselves inside their own Egos (Fortress) which in time crumbles around them.
I am very careful here......... as any unilateral statements about the nature of any given reality MAY bring oneself in the current of the Black Brothers and the Ideology of the Black Lodge. Even if it is a discription of what (I You We) think a Black Brother is.
For example - a very wise adept friend of mine once said (in keeping with our teachings) that 'You know how many people muse over the Black Lodge * Black Brothers.... Well imagine their surprise when the realize the Black Lodge is inside them!'
Of course there are a few out here who have read some books. I can tell. Yet I do not see any particular Systems or Frameworks of the various Magick schools being honored, when this topic is being discussed. Perhaps because I am new here, I am not familiar with your various traditions to which you may or may not lay claim....but there are various different explainations for both terms "Brother" & "Lodges" depending upon what lineage of Magick you have studied. This may explain the various different notions and explainations I have read here.
Reminds me of the old curse Crowley threw on the G.:D.: In evoking the spirit of Bartzebel & who spelled 'and like these peas who can not stay together, neither shall you.' as he swirled then around a glass jar. }:>
Live and Love
Fox
PS- In my opinion it's a surprise that given the topic, someone is not threatening to kill someone. It is a compliment to see we are able to handle it. -
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Unsu...
Re: Black Brothers and the Abyss
Fri, March 25, 2005 - 10:12 PMFox wrote: "PS- In my opinion it's a surprise that given the topic, someone is not threatening to kill someone. It is a compliment to see we are able to handle it."
I'm pretty sure its a case of "moderated board on a privately owned system" thingy. But you never know, maybe this tribe has simply attracted a more sociable crowd, or quieter crowd, or more apathetic crowd.... -
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Unsu...
Re: Black Brothers and the Abyss
Sun, March 27, 2005 - 4:54 PMDo you know where the term "black brother" comes from?
My guess is that is comes either from Blavatsky or from the Golden Dawn (I think that it comes from the G.D. but I didn't read the whole of Blavatsky so maybe she used the term before).
It's always interesting to check the sources. -
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Unsu...
Re: Black Brothers and the Abyss
Mon, March 28, 2005 - 7:16 AMI think it's Blavatsky who first used the term in general circulation, and her definition is distinctly different from the term as used by the GD. -
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Re: Black Brothers and the Abyss
Mon, March 28, 2005 - 11:01 AM93
Then there's the version as taught and understood by Crowley's OTO & the A.:A.:, in cluding other Thelemic orders who use the teachings covered by Crowley.
I am also familar with the Order of Melchizedik whos enitre teaching is based on the premise of being with 'The White Brotherhood.'
There is much reference to this in the secret rituals of the OTO (Order of the Temple of the East) and the concept of Black Brother contains a whole philosophy within it of being the Higher self/the Watcher/Holy Guardian angel/anti self; your worst enemy/best friend. And in some instances may be totally ignored.
My best rememberance of seeing the energy of the Black lodge is while in argument with another. Someone I heald dear, then became a judgemental critic. At which point in the converation I visualized balck snakes on the astral trying to bite and inject their venom. At that point I knew that 'it' had become aware of me, and the magnum opus of reconciling the Light & Dark, within and without, was upon me. The war still goes on, as does the peace :)
In any event Crowley got much of this from his training in the GD, but learned from other traditions as well. By this he was able to expond it further. Much of my understanding comes from the teachings of Marcello Motto(9th OTO & A.:A.:), as my contact was his disciple.
In Tibetan Budhism one see's the shadow side as being the Ashura. The demons whom the sacred Tantrica can enlist for the benefit of ones path(Hinnayana), and the well being of all others(Mahayana).
Which are all perceived as being the 'play' between Allah and the Jinn, between YHVH and Shaitan, Osiris and Set, Left & Right, Yin & Yang.
Even between the Jedi & the Sith :)
Fox -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: Black Brothers and the Abyss
Mon, March 28, 2005 - 11:49 AMHello Fox, do you know if the references to the Black Brotherhood in the papers of the O.T.O. existed in the original writings by Reuss or if they do only exist in the re-writings by Crowley?
(i.e, I am asking if the term was used before Crowley arrived) -
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Re: Black Brothers and the Abyss
Tue, March 29, 2005 - 11:46 AMI dont know for sure that they did not exist. But unless my learning as a Mason is not applicable, I dont recall ever seeing any reference in Masonic lore, nor in the early teachings of the OTO under Reuss (that is to the degree which I researched it).
There is little in the OTO proper (Caliphate) concerning 'Black Brothers' though a parallel is obvious in certain initiations. Obvious that is to someone who has other input besides traditional info provided by the OTO.
Most of my input concerning this comes from the Holy Order of Ra Hoor Khuit (HOOR). A fabulous initiatory organization run by a very good teacher. One can find their site is active at www.hoor.org Just as a side line......I find them to be more in current events and in tune with things of society, as the Order was conceived after the social, civil, sexual revolution of the '60's.
Many people have complained about the predominance of Solar superiority in the OTO. And possible continuation of (now) misogynistic elements within the OTO (many women have said as much). I have found there are other groups out there who are hardwired into the 'Secret Chiefs', and just becuse the Supreme Court says your #1, does not mean that such a group has the last say in what is 'The new Aeon.'
For example.....the OTO hides itself in mysticism concerning Tantra and other former esoteric practices. These same practices are known to many College students, and can be read in any book on the matter.
Whereas a group like the one I mention (HOOR) spells out their purpose explicitly on theior web site. hence taking a strong stand of illumination in the face of darkeness, Wherein the OTO is more interested in getting the Book rights, and US Gov. recognition.
In the words of one of my old OTO initiators 'I didn't know being a member of the OTO was going to lead to being a card carrying Republican. I joined a revolutonary order, not one whose message to it's members is one of conformity with Society.'
I know....I diverged a bit.....but it was worthwhile writing.
Fox -
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Re: Black Brothers and the Abyss
Tue, March 29, 2005 - 12:01 PMTo recap your question.
Though I recall seeing minor references to 'Black Brother' in earlier writings. No one used it as explicitly or extensively as Crowley or other teachers of his lineage. Even the G.:D.: had little to say on the subject. It had been simply a matter of someone who had reached the level of 4=7, and had refused the ordeal of 'Crossing the Abyss.' But no one besides Mathers layed claim to even getting that far anyway!
I believe one would find where a minor mention may have been made before, he expanded it and developed it further as a framework for understanding the Theosophic and Philosophic uses of magic(k) & mysticism.
I have no expertise in pre Crowley OTO , and am only familar with it. If you really want to know check in with an old acquaintance of mine Peter Koenig. Do a search on his name and you will find his site(s). He is (IMO) an expert on the subject, as well as a known (if infamous) author from Germany.
Hope this helped
Fox -
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Re: Black Brothers and the Abyss
Wed, March 30, 2005 - 10:18 PMHello Fox,
a bit OT but I ran across Peter Koenig's site the other day and spent quite a long time reading most of the articles. very interesting for anyone curious about the OTO timeline, etc. -
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Re: Black Brothers and the Abyss
Thu, March 31, 2005 - 10:42 AMHey Saul,
good to see you kickin around. Yea, I have not gone to his sight in recent years, but last I knew he had an interesting section on the Lyrics of David Bowies music and correlations with magic(k) mysticism and of course Crowley. I actually had to go out and (re)buy 'Station to Station' just for the Kabalistic references. And the Jacket sleve confirmed Koenigs accuracy.
Peter is a great guy, a bit tongue in cheek, but very reachable for discussion. I turned his head once when I addmitted to have membership in one of the 'Orders' he has not been able to infiltrate. He pumped me for info, but I was under oath at the time, so could not amuse him. In case any wonders....the Order he wanted to know about was 'Sacred Circle of Thelema' (SCT)
out of Brazil. I worked my way up to Theoricus with them before bowing out. They had some intersting formats not used by any other esoteric order, and yet are one of the ones who claim to have a 4th chapter to the Book of the Law. Their founder was an avid Nazi supporter and lived out his life in Berlin where he flew the flag of the Swastica along side of the flag of Mexico. He refused American citizenship (it was offered), and Crowley was quoted as saying 'No one else has ever done so much for the Great Work.' They probably still have a web site up, though I believe the essays I wrote for them were taken down 6 years ago.
godz I haven't thought about them (SCT) in a long time. Yes, as I remember Peter's OTO site is a Maze of web pages, it takes a long time to read them all, but as I remember very thorough.
'Truth about the OTO,' I recall is one of the main pages.
Live & Love
Fox
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